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So this of course would also imply this: someone who does not fall victim to weight loss pills non-prescription purchase xenical 120 mg with mastercard the substitution weight loss pills 1990s order xenical 120 mg overnight delivery, to weight loss pills nbc xenical 120 mg with mastercard the substituted image weight loss 2 purchase xenical 60 mg on-line, who sees always the thing itself-the weeds-and is not impressed by the fact that they can be called drones, could not become a farmer because a farmer needs that incentive in order to work hard. The method is always the same: that Socrates proves to know the whole thing from just passing by and this has supplied him with competent knowledge of farming. And this shows so clearly how limited the significance of knowledge in the case of farming is: Socrates knows everything, and yet he is not a farmer. Let us read paragraph 12 because that is one of the slight irregularities which lead to deletions on the part of the editors. That is a little example, but is enough to make clear the way in which Xenophon writes. Can you imagine why Ischomachus is so interested and why Socrates is so disinterested? In the Clouds, at verse 417, the dikaios logos, [the just speech]-can it be the dikaois logos already so early in the play? The praise of the old way of life at any rate; the old way of life versus the modern, Socratic, sophisticated way of life: it praises abstention from wine as a sign of the good old times, whereas now everybody is drunk all the time. Now in the sequel there comes a general observation where the substratum comes again into the open. But now that you have undertaken to question me in particular, my answers, you tell me, agree exactly with the views of a farmer so famous for his skill as yourself! You lead me by paths of knowledge familiar to me, point out things like what I know, and bring me to think that I really know things that I thought I had no knowledge of. And by putting questions about flute-players could I convince you that you understand flute-playing; and by means of questions about painters and other artists-" Soc: "You might, since you have convinced me that I understand agriculture, though I know that I have never been taught this art. I told you a while ago that agriculture is such a humane, gentle art that you have but to see her and listen to her, and she at once makes you understand her. The serious thought which is here jokingly appealed to is that men know what they do not believe to know. Once you start teaching a man, then knowledge, understanding, proves to be recollection. But in Plato it refers to, for example, mathematics but above all to what Plato calls the ideas. Learning is recollection because every man possesses by nature knowledge of the ideas. You see the parallel: here also this knowledge is natural to the extent that it has not been acquired with effort. The knowledge of ideas in the primary sense has not been acquired by effort, that is a common thing, but the fundamental problem is the same. We have only to substitute for Socrates someone in Chicago who never left Chicago, and he would be unable to answer quite a few questions of Ischomachus which Socrates can answer with ease, because Socrates had to see at least once this agricultural process to know that. Is this a common sense use of the word eidos, that everyone knows common-sensically what eidos means? And the alternative is that there is no harmony, and hence our knowledge is based entirely on our organizing the data so that they become orderly for us-the modern view, especially of Kant but not only of Kant. Studentiii: Because I am not sure these contradict each other, whether they could not be reconciled. But what we can do is to construct an orderly whole-what he calls the phenomenal world-and that we do by virtue of the categories with which we are by nature equipped. But this whole as we understand it is not the true whole, because otherwise [there] would have to be a natural harmony. In these examples which we read in paragraph 16, Ischomachus mentions as an example where it is difficult to know the right from the wrong, the true from the false, money. Socrates would distinguish between the good soil and bad soil, a good crop and a bad crop, but he cannot make a distinction between good money and false money. Important[ly], Socrates knows the art of farming; he does not know the economic art, because how can you be a good economist if you cannot distinguish between good and bad money? Socrates is supposed to know the art of farming and yet knowledge is unimportant in farming. But something may be very easy to come by and very important; the simplest example which I can think of is air. It is the commonest thing in the world, and yet you must admit, if you were deprived of it for a very short time, you cannot live. Why could there not be kinds of knowledge which are extremely important and yet easy to come by?
There is a certain delusion about glory-I mean these people who are concerned with it weight loss surgery generic xenical 120 mg visa, and they are more open in classical antiquity than in modern times weight loss natural supplements cheap xenical 60 mg online, of eternal glory weight loss pills 831 buy xenical 120mg on line, glory for ever and ever 7 weight loss pills xenical 60 mg. If we not have Thucydides he would be spoken about, in a way, but he would not be present as an individual. And of course in the case of Caesar it is different because he founded the Roman Empire, which lasted for many centuries and even the physical remains of it are still visible. In the case of these great conquerors, it is impossible, there is no such presence possible. What can we know of their deliberations, and counsels, and to what extent each of them was the originator of his plans? And all modern diggings and so on and so on would not fundamentally do away with that. There is one more point regarding this subject of the end toward which the effort of Cyrus is directed, at the beginning of paragraph 22. Here, at least as far following is concerned, he only says: Let us not eat now and sleep now so that we can eat and sleep forever in perfect safety. Reinken: "As it was summer, Croesus, the king of Lydia, had had his women sent on by night in carriages, that they might proceed more comfortably in the cool of the night, and he himself was following after with his cavalry. And the Phrygian king, the ruler of Phrygia on the Hellespont, they say, did the same. But I only bring them up as the kind of question which a real interpreter of this book would have to solve. That is one of the many defects of our present discussion that we cannot solve a single of these questions. The only one which I can solve is a simple one, when he says his mother was Mandane and his father is said to be Cambyses, which is easy to solve. Now he is of course- In the address to the Persian nobility which follows somewhat later, we see how much he is concerned with being reputed to be concerned with the well-being of the allies. In other words, this element of reputation, and therefore also of sham, enters into that glory. There is something in principle spurious about that, although human life is unthinkable without it. If they want to do this in the future, in safety, then they have to follow the battle now. This is why I have this question as to whether or not Cyrus is being immoderate in pushing it to a sure victory. There is no proof given that Cyrus, for prudential reasons of a higher order, say, organizing Asia, embarked on this. They could sleep now because the Assyrians have a bloody nose, and they are glad to be left alone. You know, in former times people believed that there is a war in every generation, or at least in every two generations. And consult the annals of the world whether you find a period longer than 70 years without a war. And [in] our century, which was thought to bring war [to an end] (you remember the Hague, the International Court, and all the things they tried) we have had more and bigger wars than any earlier century. Perhaps the increase in the political noise by pacifists is in a sense in exact proportion to the increase in war. There will be a young generation, people who have not known war and who are eager for fighting. That was the typical thing, described beautifully also by Thucydides at the beginning of the Peloponnesian War. So imagine: up to 48 [years] the whole group of people of arms-bearing age had never seen a war. It is not merely a sense of duty which enables people to begin wars and to stand them.
And we have the report13 weight loss pills 94 xenical 120mg with mastercard, a very detailed report of Thucydides weight loss journal ideas quality 60mg xenical, about what happened in 415 when these Hermae were mutilated and the other crimes committed weight loss lipozene trusted xenical 120 mg, allegedly inspired by Alcibiades weight loss pills for kids purchase xenical 60mg with mastercard. There was a popular terror, a real terror, not what people say about Senator McCarthy. So that is I think the reason why we know so relatively little about these things. That is a kind of symbolic presentation which is surely exaggerated, that as it were the Socratic circle should be responsible that the Spartans behave tolerably decently to the Athenians at the conclusion of the Peloponnesian War. But who can know, who can possibly know, what went on in conversations between private individuals, some of whom might have been under the influence of Socrates for all we know? At any rate it is a thought which is, how shall I say, pleasing, to some people displeasing, but surely interesting to consider. That was a very good paper,i and I have very little to add so far as the paper is concerned. But there was one point of which I was reminded by your paper, I had not thought of that before. After all, all Persians got the Persian part of the education, and all Medes got the Median part of the education, but perhaps the mixture of the two is something rare. Now as for the nature of Cyrus, this is taken for granted that he surpassed by nature everyone. Now the interesting form of the question, if one wants to present this issue: the man who has no start whatever. The upper class people are threatened by the demos, by a terrible demagogue, and then they try to pick the worst demagogue of the demagogues to set him on Cleon. And now a very strange thing happens, and this is the apparent absurdity of the play. This fellow becomes the demagogue, the successor to Cleon, and he proves to be a most excellent man. And the secret of the thing is he is a natural ruler, lacking all graces of breeding. He is not interested in ruling but this also is, as you know, according to Plato one of the proofs of the true ruler. This is a quite remarkable comedy which I think one should consider in this connection. However, to come back to Cyrus, we must not forget that in a fair judgment on Cyrus. You may have said Cyrus is not jealous of others, as this Assyrian is, the Assyrian king. In other words, the natural ruler surely, if he is a single man, would not have to be jealous of anyone, but in addition, [there is] the head start which Cyrus has. And everyone was shocked by this break of international law and everything else, and Talleyrand, who was not given to moral indignation to say the least, said: "This is worse than a crime, it is a mistake. Now you1 rightly stressed the fact that Cyrus preserves the appearance of legality all the time and that this is part of the secret of his success, because hitherto the Medes are attracted to him only by voluntary submission. Now this is important for the question which we must never forget, namely the difference between Cyrus and the tyrant. Whatever Cyrus intends, it is simply good, because some bonds, very important bonds for the society as a whole, are not severed brutally, with infinite consequences. You have it in English history, I think, very clearly, when you come to compare Cromwell with William of Orange. That meant there was a possibility of a settlement under William, there was no possibility of a settlement under Cromwell. But there are many other historical parallels which come to mind, for instance, in the relation between Cyrus and his uncle, the relation between Bismarck and the then Prussian king William I. William I was not a man who was eager to have women who were not his right, and all the time he was a very stern, ascetic, austere Prussian. But this problem of knowing that all his greatness was due to Bismarck and not to him, and he got the big honors-he became emperor. That was some difficulty for this very honorable man, but he faced it really honorably.
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